Saturday, December 19, 2009

King and the King of Peace

So, what a day. I was the baking fool doing chocolate chip and snickerdoodle cookies to pass out with information about PFLAG-Tallahassee at the city's Winter Festival down town. I rode on the gay community center's float with our PFLAG banner. Only a few people were openly hostile to us. Lots more applauded and waved, and there was something very sweet about kids shouting, "Merry Christmas" at a group of LGBT people.
Amidst all the prep for today, I had an interruption courtesy of my regular visitor, King the Jehovah's Witness. King wanted to know if I thought churches taught Scripture. I thought that a very odd question, and I said I think many do. Not true, according to King. And that's when he started telling me about the "myths of Christianity" which included the Holy Trinity and the belief that Mary is the Mother of God.
A brief pause here. I have been thinking quite a bit about Mary in anticipation of hearing the reading of the annunciation that she is going to give birth to a boy who she was to name Jesus. The way the story in Luke reads to me, Gabriel presents himself to this young Jewish teen-ager and says, "Mary, you lucky girl! Have we got an offer for you!!" Once the plan has been presented, the question becomes: what is Mary going to say. One scenario would be that she says, "I'm outta here, ya freak!" Instead, she said, "Here am I" and Mary gives her body in sacrifice and glory to God. And thus begins the most amazing love story of God for us.
Now, back to King. When King suggested that Mary didn't give birth to God, my ears perked up. "How do you figure that?"
OK... that was a mistake because then he refuted the Trinity. In fairness, I told him that we weren't going to be able to agree on this because I do believe in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
"But it's not in the Bible," says King. I looked at him in disbelief. He explained the word "Trinity" isn't in the Bible. But I insisted the concept of three aspects of God is in the Bible. This led King to crack open the Bible.
This is where the conversation went further awry. In trying to "prove" to me that Jesus was not God, he told me that Jesus never asserted that he was God.
"True enough, but how do you explain the Gospel of John where the Word was made flesh?"
King turned to the evangelist's words on the Word in the bible. King's bible maintains that "In the beginning" was the Word... and the Word was "a god", not "God".
"That's paganism," I told him. I could see this was frustrating for him to hear.
"There were many gods, but there is only one true God." And for King... that's God the Father.
"So, what are saying about Jesus? Are you telling me he was merely a prophet?"
And this is when it got even trippier. Only angels, apparently, are heavenly beings who appear human.
"Are you saying that Jesus was an angel? Oh, I think he was more than an angel, King."
As King insisted that Jesus was not God, I started to laugh. "Oh, man, King you are ruining my Advent if you tell me Jesus isn't God made incarnate through a woman!" King's sidekick, who had been silent up to this point, chuckled at that. King, realizing that I was sincere in my insistence that we weren't going to agree, handed me the magazines and asked that I please read the article on the myths of Christianity... and he would pray for me.
I will pray for me, too, that I learn to not answer the door when King arrives.
Meanwhile, with the fourth candle coming for Advent, I remain reflective on the waiting for the arrival of the light into this very dark world. It is getting brighter!

11 comments:

JohnOneOne said...

Unknown to many, the Bible does speak of others (men and angels, those were not in opposition to the Almighty) as "gods." Most every Bible commentary I've examined makes this quite clear when discussing Jesus' words at John 10:34, 35, with Him quoting from Psalm 82:6. For instance, there is this:

"The Hebrew for ‘gods’ (‘elōhîm) could refer to various exalted beings besides Yahweh [or, Jehovah], without implying any challenge to monotheism,…"

Taken from: Blomberg, Craig L. (b.?-d.?), Distinguished Professor of the New Testament, Denver Seminary, Colorado. "The Historical Reliability of John’s Gospel: Issues & Commentary." (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, c2002), “The feast of Dedication” ([John] 10:22-42), p. 163. BS2615.6.H55 B56 2002 / 2001051563.

Agape, JohnOneOne.
http://www.goodcompanionbooks.com

fr dougal said...

What (he asks in a terribly bemused way) is snickerdoodle?

Phoebe said...

Frdougal got straight to the important part of the blog.. King's theology is so confused.. it is hardly worth considering. He just needs to be loved and cared for.. a warm drink and a snickerdoodle or two!

SCG said...

I think I needed a hot toddy after that conversation!
A snickerdoodle is a sugar cookie with cinnamon sprinkled on top. I had to bake many of them because there are those odd people who don't understand that the wise men brought gold, frankincense, and myrrh and chocolate but Joseph and Mary hid that gift for themselves.

fr dougal said...

Gold, frankincense, myrrh and chocolate - that sort of Gnostiscism I can live with! (Course, it means you're not in communion with some Africans somewhere - but we're getting used to that!)

SCG said...

Oh, to have my love of chocolate be the "tipping point" for Africans as opposed to the core of my being! :)

SCG said...

JohnOneOne: welcome! On Elohim (which as you point out is a plural form of Eloheinu)... in my own way of thinking, this is another expression that would support a Holy Trinity. As in the case of the first creationg story in Genesis, where God says, "Let us make humans in our own image shows that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were in on this creation story from the beginning.
And, to quote the title of one of my favorites in the blogosphere, of course, I could be wrong...

Anonymous said...

Poor King, no Snickerdoodles for him and are they good. Just be glad that Mary knew what she was doing. It's the day of the "woman" Thank God we were around.

Peggins

SCG said...

It's the day of the "woman" Thank God we were around.


Peggins, I love that statement!!

Adam Pastor said...

Greetings SCG

On the subject of the Trinity,
I recommend this video:
The Human Jesus

Take a couple of hours to watch it; and prayerfully it will aid you to reconsider "The Trinity"

Yours In Messiah
Adam Pastor
PS BTW I am not a JW!!

SCG said...

Thank you, Adam. However you are assuming that I need to reconsider the Trinity.
I am not a Christian Deist; I am a Trinitarian. Does that negate other people to think or believe differently? No.
And unlike "Brother John" of Christian Deism, I have never struggled with the idea that God likely has found many, many ways to bring humanity back to the banquet. For me... it's through Jesus, Son of God, the Holy Spirit and the Father.
Merry Christmas!